For other posts in this exchange:
Part 1 | Part 3 | Part 4
Response to Article
Hello Keith,
greetings from Peter Vandbuerie, Belgium Europe. Thank you for your email.
I appreciate your thoughts and enjoy reading the articles.
When reading the first article I read some things I must say I think are really not correct.
Here follow some thoughts:
A Christian has no right at all to pick up any weapon and kill someone. It is forbidden to do so when Jesus commands us to love our enemies.
To teach otherwise is really bad and it comes short to Gods perfect law of Christ, which is love.
If you read 1 Corinthians 13:1-8 you will see that killing someone is not justified at all.
Under the law of Moses innocent blood was also shed, so you cannot refer to the old law to justify the use of deadly force at all when for a self proclaimed “just cause.”
Under the old law it was God Himself who commanded the killing of ungodly nations.
Jesus however now teaches us to ‘love our enemies’. There is no love at all in killing them.
Acting where God forbid is sinful for it is written “Beloved, do not avenge yourselves, but rather give place to wrath; for it is written, ‘Vengeance is Mine, I will repay,’ says the Lord.” Romans 12:19.
So when God uses nations to rise up against nations than that is His sovereign right to do so.
This teaching of authorized killing is only taught by American brethren and by the congregations throughout the world with American evangelists.
America and the American Christians have taken a position that they think they are the just tool in Gods hand.
Unless American Christians have received a prophecy from God that this is so, this is a false thought.
Let me stress out that America is an ungodly kingdom as any other kingdom in the world. America is maybe even more ungodly then some other earthly kingdoms.
And we are not to fight with any worldly kingdom, we are to fight the spiritual warfare for God’s kingdom.
And as has been seen by the world, there is no just war at all being fought in Iraq, nor in Afghanistan.
Iraq or Afghanistan have as much right to fight against the ungodly nation America as America thinks it has.
Who says God didn’t use Osama bin Laden to punish the wickedness of America? If this is the case, then according to your standpoint, American Christians should start killing Americans.
But like the Bible says: “Do not be deceived, God is not mocked; for whatever a man sows, that he will also reap.” Galatians 6:7
How this is true for the nation America.
I hope you will think over these things.
Brotherly greetings,
Peter Vandebuerie.
Reply
Keith Sharp
Dear Peter,
I appreciate your sincere, courageous response to my article. It was not my purpose to defend American foreign policy. America as a nation is most certainly not God’s chosen people; His church throughout the world is (1 Peter 2:9-10).
However, Romans 13:1-8 explicitly gives civil magistrates the power to uphold justice by the use of lethal force. The sword (Romans 13:4) is an instrument of death. Civil government is God’s ordained institution to take His vengeance on evil doers in time, i.e., before death and the judgment (Romans 12:17 – 13:7). Civil rulers and officers exercise love by promoting the greater good of all – protection from criminals (and criminal nations) and vengeance for crimes committed (Romans 13:1-8). When enforcing justice with lethal force they are acting as God’s ministers (Romans 13:1-4).
The congregation where I regularly preach is about half military, and the purpose of my article was to encourage soldiers who are Christians to remain faithful to the Lord while in war zones.
With Brotherly Love,
Keith
Second Response
Hello Keith,
Thank you for your reply.
I agree with you on your position of Romans 13 that a nation bears the sword not in vain. I do not disagree with this.
My point however is, that the reason I quoted 1 Corinthians 13:1-8 is that love is the individual Christian’s responsibility.
Avenging however is NOT a Christian’s individual responsibility. so the question is not “Does God use nations to punish other nations?” We agree on that matter.
The question should be, “Can a Christian pick up a weapon and kill someone?”
Then the answer must be “NO”. Christians are to love their enemies.
Christians are citizens of heaven who do not avenge themselves; let alone avenge in name of an ungodly nation. (Romans 12:17-21)
A Christian who kills another human being is in direct violation of the command to ‘love their enemies’. (Luke 6:27). “But I say unto you that hear: Love your enemies, do good to them that hate you. 28 Bless them that curse you, and pray for them that despitefully use you.”
So, if a Christian in the Iraq army kills a Christian in the American army, was it then justified?
This then was the will of God?
Greetings,
Peter Vandebuerie.
Second Reply
Dear Peter,
When a civil officer uses lethan force to uphold justice, he is not killing a personal enemy. Thus, Luke 6:27-28 has no application. He is acting as God’s minister in avenging evil and upholding justice, therefore enabling innocent people to live in a peaceful, just society (Romans 13:1-7). It makes no difference whether the civil officer is a Christian or an alien sinner, for the law of Christ applies equally to all (Mark 16:15; Ephesians 1:22-23).
Brotherly,
Keith
Third Response
Hello Keith,
Thank you for your time and effort in e-mailing with me about this matter.
I appreciate it greatly.
In order to understand you better I wrote down some questions.
If an American Christian soldier kills an Iraqi unbeliever, is he then avenging?
Is he avenging in God’s Name?
On what basis is this avenging authorized?
Is the ungodly nation of America the avenger of God?
If a Christian in the Iraq army kills a Christian in the American army, was it then justified?
Where are Christians commanded to act as an avenger for evil?
If Luke 6:27-28 is not applicable because it talks about a personal enemy, isn’t it also then that romans 13:1-7 is not applicable for the personal Christian to be part of, since the right to avenge is only given to the government and the christian is only to submit?
How is it possible that one who is not to avenge his own enemies, can avenge other enemies?
Isn’t a Christian to pray for authorities and peace instead of acting as an avenger to enable peace (1 Tim 2:2)?
What do the following words mean? Matthew 26:52 Then said Jesus unto him, ‘Put up again thy sword into his place, for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword.’
Is it justified by Jesus to kill this man?
Why is it that the kingdom of God war isn’t taught anymore, yet citizens of that very kingdom do teach war? Isa. 2:4; Micah 4:3 (And they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruning hooks; nation shall not lift up a sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more)
Brotherly,
Peter
Third Reply
Dear Peter,
I hope you realize that, while sending me questions that I admit are difficult, you simply are refusing to deal with the text that proves my position true – Romans 13:1-7. Rather than dealing with Scripture, you ask entrapping questions (cf. Matthew 22:15-40). The inspired apostle Paul declares that civil officers are God’s ministers when they use lethal force to administer justice. Civil government as the administrator of justice by the use of lethal force is ordained of God.
I am not interested in justifying American involvement in Iraq, nor do I intend to be drawn into a political discussion. We can have political differences and still be brethren. I will not answer questions that deal with politics. I am an evangelist, not a politician. I will answer any serious effort to deal with the meaning and application of Scripture.
The fact you repeatedly talk about Christians in the Iraqi Army proves your questions do not seriously deal with reality.
National governments as well as individuals may become so unjust they deserve to be destroyed (cf. Revelation 18:1-8).
Now, to answer your questions so far as I can do so without advancing a political position:
(1 and 2) It makes no difference whether one who deserves to die is a Christian or an alien sinner. Paul, a Christian, was willing to be put to death if he had committed a crime deserving death (Acts 25:11).
(3) if it is just, Romans 13:1-7 authorizes it.
(4) The ungodly nation of Rome was God’s avenger on the ungodly nation of Israel (Matthew 21:33-43), as was the ungodly nation of the Chaldeans (Habakkuk 1:1-6). In so far as these nations acted justly, they did right. In so far as their brutality exceeded justice, they brought just punishment on themselves.
(5) Is he upholding just law of brutality?
(6) Christians are never commanded to act as avengers. But anyone, saint or sinner, is authorized to be a civil officer and avenge evil by Romans 13:1-7. God has one law for both Christians and aliens (Ephesians 1:22-23). It is righteous for anyone to be a minister of God.
(7) The civil officer, whether Christian or alien, who uses lethal force to administer justice is not taking personal vengeance but is acting as the minister of God (Romans 13:1-7).
(8) Romans 13:1-7
(9) He may do both (Romans 13:1-7)
(10) Matthew 26:52 is a proverbial statement. No one denies policemen and soldiers live dangerous lives (as do firefighters). Jesus instructed His disciples to take a sword (Luke 22:36).
(11) The kingdom of God is spiritual (Romans 14:17), and it’s weaponry is spiritual (2 Corinthians 10:3-6; Ephesians 6:10-20). The nations of men are fleshly, and their weapons are fleshly. We may be loyal citizens both of the kingdom of heaven and a nation of men (Matthew 22:21). We may exercise the citizenship rights of a nation of men (Acts 22:23-29), and demand its armed protection from evil doers (Acts 23:12-33). If it is right to demand protection by those who justly use lethal force, it is right to supply this force (Ephesians 5:11).
Brotherly,
Keith
